Enter your email to see how I got rich by working part-time, selling none of my own products, and without ever being an obnoxious salesman.
It was almost a year ago that I first heard Frank Kern rave about InfusionSoft, the all-in-one solution that combined email marketing, ecommerce, affiliate marketing, and customer relationships, and shopping cart technology into one simple application. When I heard about it, the price tag was as much as $5000 to start and $497 a month, and it appeared to be just another system to learn, and I cast it aside as too steep a price and unnecessary for my business.
Over time, more and more internet “gurus” began to herald InfusionSoft as a robust, perfect solution for internet marketers, and the social proof began to get my attention. When my good friend Matthew Bredel gave it a try and spoke of its benefits, I gave in and decided to give it a try. The cost for the intermediate package: $3,500 to start and $299/month… no chump change by any stretch of the imagination.
Matt had warned me about the learning curve, and I was not keen on having to get comfortable with yet another piece of software that I thought would only complicate my life. But if it would increase my bottom line… yadda, yadda… you know the thought process.
After getting inside, I began to see why there was such a learning curve; after spending years with Aweber, I expected a user interface that was… well, rational. When I want to send an email to my list in Aweber, I choose the list and hit “Send Broadcast.” In InfusionSoft, you go to People > Send Broadcast > Email > Compose New > Compose Draft > Choose Recipients, and then you browse through your different tags to choose who you want to see the email, and then send.
Sheesh. Then you have to take a nap.
Similarly, in Aweber, if I want to see my open rate, then I login and scroll about an inch to see the stats from my latest broadcasts. In InfusionSoft, you would never find your reports unless somebody told you how, because you need to go to Reports > View All Reports > Marketing Reports > Broadcast Conversion > and then search by date and look for your specific email. Then, take nap #2.
Initially, InfusionSoft was such a headache that I spent more time learning the application that I actually spent running my business… and this was for something that was supposed to actually automate my business.
However, there was always one feature that stood out to me, and it immediately demonstrated it’s value even as I only began to scratch the surface. InfusionSoft has the ability to segment lists according to actions that they take, which no other email marketing system can claim to be able to do. In Aweber, if you want to put people into a new list, then you have to create a new list and get each member to confirm their email address again. In InfusionSoft, once a person has opted into your list, you can funnel them into different autoresponder series according to what they do. If they request “Report X,” then BAM! they go into a new autoresponder series. If they click on a link in Email 3, then BAM! they go into an autoresponder series that follows up with them on that action. If they buy a certain item, optin to a new list, or cancel their subscription… you get the idea.
It’s beautiful. One mastermind partner calls it a “life saver.” And it allows the list owner to completely segment their lists and deliver the most relevant content to their lists, and that results in more money from your lists… that is, if you can find your way around the application. And if you can get the emails delivered, too…
While the list segmentation was great for sending targeted emails to my subscribers, the email delivery rate was terrible. Immediately after going from Aweber to InfusionSoft, my broadcast open rates plummeted from a consistent 18% (or higher) to about 10%. That’s almost a 50% drop… and while I could assume that my subject lines flat-out sucked for the time that I was with InfusionSoft, I noticed that many of the emails went right to my spam box… even when I didn’t have any HTML or use any “spam words.”
There’s actually no way to be able to tell if your email is going to go to spam folders, because they have no “Spam-O-Meter.” In Aweber, they’ll analyze your emails to see if there are any red flags – no such technology in InfusionSoft, but my knowledge of email marketing has trained me to be very safe, yet they still went to spam folders.
At the same time, I can’t necessarily blame InfusionSoft… open rates are not really worth anything because they are hard to track, and my open rates did drop to about 11% after I ultimately switched back Aweber… although, that could be because half of my list was getting my emails in their spam folder from InfusionSoft mail drops, and after three months of not hearing from me, they didn’t have a clue who I was.
I was most annoyed, however, when I went over my monthly email limit. While getting used to the application, I forgot that InfusionSoft puts a limit on the number of emails that you can send out each month. You’d think that it would be high enough that you would never come near it, but that was not the case. One month, I decided to run a promotion as an affiliate, and I sent out a five-part email sequence, each one to about 10,000 people. I mean, 10k is not a huge list, so I didn’t think any of it, until I started to get hit with overage charges because I surpassed my monthly limit of emails. Granted, getting hit with $10 overage charges isn’t that big of a deal, but when you’re already paying $297 a month to a company that you’re already beginning to resent, it was most annoying.
So my first impressions were that delivery rates sucked, and that navigation through InfusionSoft sucked even worse. However, the ability to segment lists and automate follow up sequences is phenomenal. So let’s be favorable and call it a “wash” so far… but the story goes on…
When I had problems navigating through the user interface, there was ALWAYS someone willing to help. Let me be very, very clear: InfusionSoft had customer support that was so helpful that it scared me. Like, I felt as though I was taking advantage of them. I’m pretty sure that if I had asked them to get on a plane and come to my house to show me how to use the different features, they would have not only done so, but they would have also served me coffee, vacuumed my office, and set me up on a date with a supermodel, all with a smile on their faces. Without a doubt, it was the best customer service that I had encountered in my internet career.
For example, I once posted a job on a freelance site for some work to be done in my application, and within about 12 hours someone from InfusionSoft had called me and offered to do it himself for free. He also became my primary contact person for no apparent reason – if I had a question, he would either give me the answer or find it for me, even though I wasn’t assigned to his account. The dude floored me. Thanks, Michael Bast.
Not everyone was this responsive, though. I had a “success coach,” who was supposed to be assigned to my account and help me with whatever I needed. I found this to be quite ironic, because in my three or four attempts to contact him, he not only never called me back or acknowledged that I called, but it took him about three days to return an email, as well.
And while the people who helped me were enthusiastically willing to go the extra mile for me, no one seemed to have all the answers or be very familiar with the application. For example, I had heard it boasted (by “gurus”, not by IS themselves) that InfusionSoft had the ability to remail customers who had not opened previous broadcast emails – a feature that comes standard in Aweber. However, no one could tell me how to do this, and I ultimately found out that they did not have this feature at all. Furthermore, many of my questions got directed to different departments, and sometimes I did not get an answer at all. I never quite understood why the people there were only familiar with one aspect of their product instead of understanding how everything worked as a whole.
Overall, though, their customer service was unbelievably helpful and genuine in their desire to help. Even in my eventual decision to cancel, they offered to help me find an application that would be a better fit for me. Their customer service downright floored me, and it actually inspired me to provide better customer service in my own business.
None of them had a good explanation as to why my open rates were so low, though. One person told me that I should run a campaign to get my subscribers to “white list” me. Right. Welcome to 1999.
While I dove the deepest into the CRM and the email marketing, I barely scratched the surface of the affiliate program or the shopping cart. That’s because when I asked my programmer to integrate them into my website, he poked around for a few days and then said, “Ryan, this is the worst API that I have ever seen.” I actually burned through two programmers before throwing up my hands and giving up on any integration.
It was about this time that I began to Tweet about my frustrations with the interface and the overall use of InfusionSoft. As expected, the customer service would call and offer to help me out in any way possible, including looking at my campaigns, getting me in touch with the resident API expert, washing my clothes, answering my email, and even buying me a pizza and rubbing my shoulders as I watched The Big Lebowski. In fact, when I tweeted something negative about them, someone would call me within four minutes – I’m not joking.
But there was little that customer service could do to make my emails get delivered to inboxes instead of spam folders. And there was nothing that they could do to change the application interface so that it actually made sense to navigate through. And there was nothing that they could do to make their API actually functional.
The final straw was when I went to Austin to meet with my mastermind group, and one of the most respected members gave his InfusionSoft horror stories, including one about them double-billing his customers and a host of other entertaining, yet sad stories about their system. Unfortunately, no one had a solution for him, because there is not yet a shopping cart solution suitable for what internet marketers do. Problems with shopping carts are not exclusive to InfusionSoft.
Even with the best customer service I’ve ever seen and the best customer relationship manager that I’ve ever come across, the counter-intuitive, complicated user interface, the poor delivery rate, miserable API, and the horror stories that I have heard ultimately led me to cancel my subscription to InfusionSoft and switch back to Aweber and 1ShoppingCart…. well, at least ATTEMPT to cancel my subscription. As of right now, I have made three phone calls and written two emails, but I have been unsuccessful in canceling. In fact, I have actually spoken to two live people who have said that they would handle it, but I have yet to receive an update after about two weeks of waiting.
Because I never officially “used” my affiliate interface or my shopping cart (that is, no affiliates were added and no official orders were taken), I sent two emails to support outlining my experience, and I politely requested a refund for the services that were never used. To be fair, I was outside of my 30-day review window, but after thirty days with the application, I still barely could navigate through the thing. Both of my emails went unanswered.
In the end, my experience with InfusionSoft was a very expensive experiment… an experiment that cost me about $5,000 and about half of my regular readers. While I think the world of them as a company and of their list segmentation features, remember this: If your current systems ain’t broke, DON’T FIX ‘EM.
Let me be clear… I think InfusionSoft is an unbelievable piece of technology even with its flaws and kinks, and it will probably be amazing in the next few years. It’s perfect for small businesses and offline businesses that want to keep in touch with the customers. However, when it comes to internet marketing, it simply cannot handle the tasks that we in the industry need it to do.
And don’t expect cancellation to be an easy process… although I usually Tweet my blog posts, so I should be receiving a phone call here in about four minutes. ; )
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by RyanMoran, Robert L G BRERETON. Robert L G BRERETON said: InfusionSoft Review – My Short-Lived Experiment « Ryan Moran http://bit.ly/1OzV1q [...]
You Rock Dude
I had a similar experience with Feedblitz (not cost wize , but more so in their crappy navigational design. Heck to this day I still can’t navigate through their system. Thanks for the post. Very helpful.
Sometimes the grass isn’t greener on the other side. Sounds like amazing customer service though. I hope you get your cancellation soon. Have a good one.
Hey Ryan, you could always go the route of reporting it to the BBB.. and also go through your credit card/Bank process. At least they can do the follow up’s. Even though the 30 days is up, you might go with being dissatisfied with their product. Then by letting go with this issue in releasing it, will give things times to work out.
Appreciate the honest review. There is no doubt Infusionsoft has the most incredible support team. I’m curious what you were trying to accomplish in regards to the shopping cart and affiliate program that required API integration. Even some of the slickest processes can be automated and customized with standard php. I know Infusionsoft is constantly driving on increased deliverability. And as for the GUI, I’ve been using Infusionsoft for over 4 years now and I can tell you that the company has made leaps and bounds in this area, and I’m sure they will continue to do so.. Should you decide to give the software another shake in the future, perhaps we can help you with the cart and affiliate integration.
Best,
Jarrod Morris
I hope that the application continues to improve, and should it evolve into what the internet marketing world needs, I’d be open to giving it another shot – I don’t harbor bad feelings, but it didn’t do what I wanted it to do. If that changes, I’ll certainly keep you in mind Jarrod – thanks for letting me know!
I’ll give you guys a look, as well. I know that there was more to the application than what I saw, but my overall experience was enough to impress me with their company, but disappoint me with the product.
Hey Ryan,
That was a great read and very typical of many Infusionsoft customer experiences. I talk to pissed off people all the time.
I think you hit the nail on the head, they are a good company, they have good intentions but it’s not quite hit maturity for MOST internet marketers to be able to use easily.
That being said…
The very best marketers have found ways around everything you’ve listed as bad points.
It’s a good software but is just sold wrong in my opinion. It’s NOT for everyone. Not by a long shot.
If you want to spend a ton of money to get a few little workarounds and custom solutions built you can get it rocking like nothing else out there.
What Infusionsoft needs to tell people is that it isn’t easy to replicate some of the snazzy features of Aweber or 1ShoppingCart.
Infusionsoft does more but it’s easy to get caught up on a few bad points or a few key features it lacks.
They need to tell people to seek real professional advice because you can get around everything with a little help. Jarod Moris & his department are a great resource. The CMAC’s (some of them) are a good resource.
The truth is, with the right help, Infusionsoft can be what you’ve heard it is… the most beautiful software in the world.
I know that’s a bit abstract but for anyone else looking to buy Infusionsoft or feeling Infusionsoft pain….
Get a real pro’s advice, someone who will actually tell you if you need to exit the software or not. Sometimes, it just won’t work. Most of the time, with a few tweaks or add-ons you can get what you want. Just find someone who does that or who can point you to someone who will.
I’ve never worked at Infusionsoft but know tons of people who are able to use it fully after a little help.
Ryan-
One of the reasons why your open rates and click rates went down when switching from AWeber to Infusionsoft is that AWeber tracks open rates and click rates differently than Infusionsoft does. I have been in touch with AWebers customer support to verify this.
Infusionsoft is tracking unique opens and clicks, while AWeber counts each click or open regardless if it has been done multiple times. For example, if you send an email to 100 people, and 50 people open the email twice, Infusionsoft will show a 50% open rate and AWeber will show a 100% open rate. Same thing happens with click tracking as well. I don’t want this to sound like I am saying that either way of tracking is wrong, it’s just not an apples to apples comparison.
Also, as far as deliverability is concerned, AWeber requires DoubleOpt in, while Infusionsoft strongly suggests it. Sending to Single Opt in subscribers will have a lower deliverability rate than sending to double opt in subscribers. If you are sending thru the Double opt in servers Infusionsoft’s internal testing shows 98.7% deliverability to the Inbox of the recipient. Another interesting point, Infusionsoft tracks emails to the Inbox, while AWeber tracks that the email doesn’t get rejected by the recipient’s email provider. Again, neither way is wrong, but it’s not an apples to apples comparison.
If you have any questions, feel free to contact me on Monday.
Jordan
Ryan,
I went through the same thing for 3 years, first trying to learn the system myself. Then finally paying a fortune to get a VA to learn how to navigate the system and paying them to wait on hold to get answers.
They might have had a great system but they grew too fast to keep up with demand. When I first started the front line guys knew the system in and out after a few years I don’t think customer service even knew what they were selling.
I pulled the plug on the same 5k mistake (and then some) and went looking for a new provider. I found Office Autopilot to be much easier and more robust plus I am not at the mercy of programmers or spending days on hold with customer service. You might go to their site and try it out (www.officeautopilot.com)
No, I am not getting paid by these guys but after getting nowhere with Infusion for years I love being with a company that actually helps me grow my business, oh and returns calls.
RL
This is my favorite part:
“One person told me that I should run a campaign to get my subscribers to “white list” me. Right. Welcome to 1999.”
I think I am a sucker for anything that references how crappy the internet was only 10 years ago. Nothing else makes the 1990’s seem more obsolete.
I had a similar experience while I was evaluating system for my business. I looked at InfusionSoft, AWeber and some others. I had demos and did the free trials when available. I spent months try to figure out what to use.
What I finally decided on was a system called OfficeAutoPilot, by a company called MoonRay. Contrary to your comment about no system on the market being able to segment by the action a visitor takes – OAP does this! It’s awesome. The email deliverability is comparable to other systems and the interface is pretty intuitive. They recently added an API that integrates with 1ShoppingCart so I’m a happy camper.
Like Russ above, I’m not getting paid by these folks. But they have a great product and I have been impressed by their service and support. They actually uploaded my product list from 1SC to do the integration – free. Like I said, I’m a happy camper.
LL
Hi Ryan,
I’m a developer at Infusionsoft. I definitely appreciate the honest feedback. We love hearing where we excel, but almost as much to hear where we can improve. I was curious why AWeber appeared to have better deliverability. I know our email deliverability specialist Ryan Peterson (he sits two chairs away from me) and he is really good (not just at email deliverability but everything he touches). I’ve also worked at ISP’s where email deliverability was a problem, and people complain FAST. And I don’t see that.
Anyways, I was (and am) very curious, I did a quick test to see if what Jordan said is correct about AWeber (I didn’t believe it was, but was hoping this would explain it). And he is correct… I think this may explain the descrepincy. I’m going to get with Ryan this week and see if we can get some more transparency in our deliverability metric we tout all the time.
Anyways, complete details are here: http://joeynovak.com/blog/infusionsoft/email-deliverability-infusionsoft-vs-aweber-not-apples-to-apples/
Joey
Glad you’ve seen the light!
REALLY wish I knew your secret to great support… I pay $1700/mth for their top tier “enterprise” system and it still takes forever to get somebody on the phone, and then days worth of run-around as to why the system broke after the last update and when they will get around to fixing the latest round of broken critical features.
Soon, after way too many years waiting for it to get better, Infusion Soft will be dead to me. My tech guys already have the celebration planned when we go AI (After Infusion)!
I used Infusion Soft a few years ago. There sleazy sales people hard balled me into it. In all fairness, I was taken with their segmentation gimmick.
Terrible experience. Very few of my emails got through compared to aweber, getresponse, and icontact.
Their customer suport was worse. Ryan, your story is the exception and not the rule. I tried for month’s to get the scammers to address my issues. They’d ignore for days.
I finally got someone on the phone… had a two argument with him about their email deliverablity… he got the head of their email department on the phone…. the head of their email department agreed with me… so, I said, since you guys admit to having a deliverability problem, I’d like a refund.
Their response was, “Yeah, we don’t give refunds.”
Maybe the company has gotten better… but I think not.
I find many infusion soft using marketer’s emails in my spam box.
These people do not have your best interest. In fact, company is owned by lawyers. These people just want to swindle your money.
Name (required)
eMail (will not be published) (required)
Website
Comment